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	<title>Comments for Wikipedia Illustrated</title>
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	<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org</link>
	<description>Through illustrating 26 Wikipedia articles, sharing the process in a blog, publishing a book and running workshops we hope to draft a new path for a visual free culture.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:23:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The problem with the walls surrounding the mind by Hikikomori: Shut away from the world</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/letters/h/the-problem-with-the-walls-surrounding-the-mind#comment-1277</link>
		<dc:creator>Hikikomori: Shut away from the world</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=152#comment-1277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Illustration by Galia Offri [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Illustration by Galia Offri [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on At the Open Knowledge Festival, Helsinki by Video from the Open Knowledge Festival</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/at-the-open-knowledge-festival-helsinki#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>Video from the Open Knowledge Festival</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 12:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=991#comment-537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]          &#171; At the Open Knowledge Festival, Helsinki Drawing For Wikipedia workshop in Art, Environment, Action! at Parsons &#187;  Video from the Open [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]          &laquo; At the Open Knowledge Festival, Helsinki Drawing For Wikipedia workshop in Art, Environment, Action! at Parsons &raquo;  Video from the Open [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Drawing For Wikipedia workshop in Art, Environment, Action! at Parsons by this is how we recycle</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/drawing-for-wikipedia-workshop-in-art-environment-action-at-parsons#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>this is how we recycle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 09:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=998#comment-535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the Drawing For Wikipedia workshop in Art, Environment, Action! at Parsons Share:EmailTwitterRSS     featured: Recycling by product Products made from a variety [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Drawing For Wikipedia workshop in Art, Environment, Action! at Parsons Share:EmailTwitterRSS     featured: Recycling by product Products made from a variety [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by mushon</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>mushon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 16:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Ron,
I really appreciate your questions as they really help me put what we&#039;re doing into words.

There are simple examples of where an illustration makes an agreeable &quot;significant contribution&quot; such as in technical or scientific illustration. Such an example can be seen in the moustache styles illustrations we collaborated on for the Moustache article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moustache#Styles

The thing is, technical illustrations including the moustache styles illustrations are following the same pattern of thought as text. They are predominantly left-brain literal descriptions of a visual representation. By that they might make an easily agreeable &quot;significant contribution&quot; as these have been defined by a rule set predominantly favoring the word, the literal, the left-brain type of knowledge over the image, the visual, the right-brain kind of knowledge.

There is a statement in what we do, and that is that there is room for ambiguity in culture and in its documentation. This ambiguity has always been a part of culture and of knowledge construction, you can even see it in text within the pages of Wikipedia (in articles such as Bathroom Singing for example). The technocratic urge to disambiguate should be taken with a grain of salt. We do agree Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it should be neutral, should strive for verifiability and accuracy. But we also think this does not necessarily contradict the use of illustrations. Take the illustration for Little Albert Experiment for example. There is some low quality video footage from the experiment&#039;s documentation, it is unusable for Wikipedia because of licensing restrictions. The illustrative interpretation is obviously not a photographic one, but it serves the article well. The same can be said about the use of courtroom illustrations, they serve to visualize where photography cannot or should not be available. And while doing that they function on more than just the literal interpretation of written language.

Finally, there&#039;s the issue of Conceptual Blending (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_blending&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;look it up&lt;/a&gt; ;)). Neuroscientists are discovering new and surprising things about how our brain works. The non-linear, multichanneled, often unfocused way of thinking is a huge part of what makes us do more than just simple cognition, it helps us analyze often critically the information in front of us. Images have a role in that, an illustration immediately flags itself as an ambassador of this type of thinking. Making an illustration less literal does not mean it is misleading or unhelpful (quite the contrary, a literal representation might be much more problematic in that sense). For example, the use of color on the Little Albert Experiment is not factual or verifiable, it is based on B&amp;W footage. The anatomy in the illustration is not 100% correct and that as well would not make anyone argue the image is misleading.

To summarize, yes we do realize this proposition might be tough to swallow in the highly literal culture of Wikipedia (I won&#039;t use the &#039;P&#039; word, I know you don&#039;t like it). But out of sincere admiration to Wikipedia&#039;s achievements and concern for its future we do think this debate is important, should take place and should not be dusted under the rug. It is tough rejections like your that are helping us better define our message and even if you&#039;re not convinced we hope you do appreciate the importance of the debate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ron,<br />
I really appreciate your questions as they really help me put what we&#8217;re doing into words.</p>
<p>There are simple examples of where an illustration makes an agreeable &#8220;significant contribution&#8221; such as in technical or scientific illustration. Such an example can be seen in the moustache styles illustrations we collaborated on for the Moustache article: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moustache#Styles" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moustache#Styles</a></p>
<p>The thing is, technical illustrations including the moustache styles illustrations are following the same pattern of thought as text. They are predominantly left-brain literal descriptions of a visual representation. By that they might make an easily agreeable &#8220;significant contribution&#8221; as these have been defined by a rule set predominantly favoring the word, the literal, the left-brain type of knowledge over the image, the visual, the right-brain kind of knowledge.</p>
<p>There is a statement in what we do, and that is that there is room for ambiguity in culture and in its documentation. This ambiguity has always been a part of culture and of knowledge construction, you can even see it in text within the pages of Wikipedia (in articles such as Bathroom Singing for example). The technocratic urge to disambiguate should be taken with a grain of salt. We do agree Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it should be neutral, should strive for verifiability and accuracy. But we also think this does not necessarily contradict the use of illustrations. Take the illustration for Little Albert Experiment for example. There is some low quality video footage from the experiment&#8217;s documentation, it is unusable for Wikipedia because of licensing restrictions. The illustrative interpretation is obviously not a photographic one, but it serves the article well. The same can be said about the use of courtroom illustrations, they serve to visualize where photography cannot or should not be available. And while doing that they function on more than just the literal interpretation of written language.</p>
<p>Finally, there&#8217;s the issue of Conceptual Blending (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_blending" rel="nofollow">look it up</a> <img src='http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> ). Neuroscientists are discovering new and surprising things about how our brain works. The non-linear, multichanneled, often unfocused way of thinking is a huge part of what makes us do more than just simple cognition, it helps us analyze often critically the information in front of us. Images have a role in that, an illustration immediately flags itself as an ambassador of this type of thinking. Making an illustration less literal does not mean it is misleading or unhelpful (quite the contrary, a literal representation might be much more problematic in that sense). For example, the use of color on the Little Albert Experiment is not factual or verifiable, it is based on B&#038;W footage. The anatomy in the illustration is not 100% correct and that as well would not make anyone argue the image is misleading.</p>
<p>To summarize, yes we do realize this proposition might be tough to swallow in the highly literal culture of Wikipedia (I won&#8217;t use the &#8216;P&#8217; word, I know you don&#8217;t like it). But out of sincere admiration to Wikipedia&#8217;s achievements and concern for its future we do think this debate is important, should take place and should not be dusted under the rug. It is tough rejections like your that are helping us better define our message and even if you&#8217;re not convinced we hope you do appreciate the importance of the debate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 05:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Generally, wikipedia is getting things right - its success is proof of this. This holds true both for written content and to visuals. If you get the impression that many articles are still lacking visuals, you are likely correct. However, many articles also lack text, or are lacking in text quality. Wikipedia is not perfect and it is not complete - this is a known fact to all (I hope). But it is continues to improve. It still needs more articles to be written, it still need many articles to be improved, it still needs many more images uploaded. But not the illustrations you propose.

I see you&#039;ve not answered my question whether you&#039;ve made a significant contribution to the written text of some wikipedia articles. Does this mean &quot;no&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, wikipedia is getting things right &#8211; its success is proof of this. This holds true both for written content and to visuals. If you get the impression that many articles are still lacking visuals, you are likely correct. However, many articles also lack text, or are lacking in text quality. Wikipedia is not perfect and it is not complete &#8211; this is a known fact to all (I hope). But it is continues to improve. It still needs more articles to be written, it still need many articles to be improved, it still needs many more images uploaded. But not the illustrations you propose.</p>
<p>I see you&#8217;ve not answered my question whether you&#8217;ve made a significant contribution to the written text of some wikipedia articles. Does this mean &#8220;no&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by mushon</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>mushon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 08:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So just to get this straight, as far as you&#039;re concerned Wikipedia is getting visual contributions right, and everything is ok? If the answer is &#039;no&#039;, do you have any other idea of ways to change things for the better? We are going through the trouble of doing this, not as a way of saying &quot;we got it right&quot; but as a way to (yes) provoke this discussion and collaboratively addressing this ongoing blind spot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So just to get this straight, as far as you&#8217;re concerned Wikipedia is getting visual contributions right, and everything is ok? If the answer is &#8216;no&#8217;, do you have any other idea of ways to change things for the better? We are going through the trouble of doing this, not as a way of saying &#8220;we got it right&#8221; but as a way to (yes) provoke this discussion and collaboratively addressing this ongoing blind spot.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 17:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems you have some interest in the verb &quot;provoke&quot;. I saw your presentation in pecha kucha, yes, and yes, thought it was interesting (as opposed to clever or helpful), then read the links and thought I&#039;d add my two cents here. If you prefer to think of this process as a provocation, fine.

The right brain cannot, should not be part of encyclopedic creation. Generally, these should be neutral, factual and documentary, not creative. Wikipedia does not, nor should it, prepare artistic illustrations; the only images prepared are documentary: pictures of people/places/objects, diagrams and maps, etc.

There is nothing old or mediocre about this approach - it is necessary to maintain encyclopedias which provide readers with fact, rather than impression and interpretation, i.e. fiction. There are no tough questions here, these are very basic qualities of wikipedia or any other encyclopedia. Have you ever tried to make a significant contribution to some wikipedia articles (and I mean the text...)? It usually doesn&#039;t take one much time to realize that it is necessary to insist on verifiability, neutrality, factuality etc, - which your images can&#039;t meet. &quot;only a few image makers interested in contributing to Wikipedia&quot; - are you quite sure this statement is factual, for example? Have you checked how many image makers contribute to wikipedia (in the ways described above, obviously -- artistic illustrations are not contributions in wikipedia and similar projects)? If you check, I&#039;ll think you&#039;d be quite surprised at the number of image contributors, and the number of contributed images. 

You can make your own and add illustrations as you fit, using your wildest imagination if you so wish, just don&#039;t attempt to call it an encyclopedia, because it isn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems you have some interest in the verb &#8220;provoke&#8221;. I saw your presentation in pecha kucha, yes, and yes, thought it was interesting (as opposed to clever or helpful), then read the links and thought I&#8217;d add my two cents here. If you prefer to think of this process as a provocation, fine.</p>
<p>The right brain cannot, should not be part of encyclopedic creation. Generally, these should be neutral, factual and documentary, not creative. Wikipedia does not, nor should it, prepare artistic illustrations; the only images prepared are documentary: pictures of people/places/objects, diagrams and maps, etc.</p>
<p>There is nothing old or mediocre about this approach &#8211; it is necessary to maintain encyclopedias which provide readers with fact, rather than impression and interpretation, i.e. fiction. There are no tough questions here, these are very basic qualities of wikipedia or any other encyclopedia. Have you ever tried to make a significant contribution to some wikipedia articles (and I mean the text&#8230;)? It usually doesn&#8217;t take one much time to realize that it is necessary to insist on verifiability, neutrality, factuality etc, &#8211; which your images can&#8217;t meet. &#8220;only a few image makers interested in contributing to Wikipedia&#8221; &#8211; are you quite sure this statement is factual, for example? Have you checked how many image makers contribute to wikipedia (in the ways described above, obviously &#8212; artistic illustrations are not contributions in wikipedia and similar projects)? If you check, I&#8217;ll think you&#8217;d be quite surprised at the number of image contributors, and the number of contributed images. </p>
<p>You can make your own and add illustrations as you fit, using your wildest imagination if you so wish, just don&#8217;t attempt to call it an encyclopedia, because it isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by mushon</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator>mushon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 06:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like the text, the illustration&#039;s relationship to the page should be dynamic and change with it. The images are by no means there forever and they should play an equal part in better representing the encyclopedic term.

So no worries reallyâ€¦ Plus for reference the edits will always live in the history pages of the Wikipedia article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like the text, the illustration&#8217;s relationship to the page should be dynamic and change with it. The images are by no means there forever and they should play an equal part in better representing the encyclopedic term.</p>
<p>So no worries reallyâ€¦ Plus for reference the edits will always live in the history pages of the Wikipedia article.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by mushon</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator>mushon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 06:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For what it&#039;s worth, the project did &quot;provoke&quot; you to write this comment right after the end of our Pecha Kucha presentation. :)
The art context of the event might be a bit misleading. Our intervention concerns the still limited perspective Wikipedia covers when it comes to public and collaborative knowledge gathering. We argue the left-brain kind of analytical knowledge tells only a partial story, and the right-brain non-linear thinking that involves image making (and image reading) is a constant blind spot for Wikipedia. Ours is a very initial attempt to address the questions. It is indeed considered by many as a provocation, as it attempts to surface this debate and start asking the tough questions Wikipedia has rightfully earned the luxury of asking.

So yes, if you directly translate the guidelines for text into image making you would get what you have now, only old or mediocre imagery and only a few image makers interested in contributing to Wikipedia. The rules as to what images fit into Wikipedia are much more fuzzy than most people think. We want to start addressing them and hopefully change Wikipedia and its culture for the better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, the project did &#8220;provoke&#8221; you to write this comment right after the end of our Pecha Kucha presentation. <img src='http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
The art context of the event might be a bit misleading. Our intervention concerns the still limited perspective Wikipedia covers when it comes to public and collaborative knowledge gathering. We argue the left-brain kind of analytical knowledge tells only a partial story, and the right-brain non-linear thinking that involves image making (and image reading) is a constant blind spot for Wikipedia. Ours is a very initial attempt to address the questions. It is indeed considered by many as a provocation, as it attempts to surface this debate and start asking the tough questions Wikipedia has rightfully earned the luxury of asking.</p>
<p>So yes, if you directly translate the guidelines for text into image making you would get what you have now, only old or mediocre imagery and only a few image makers interested in contributing to Wikipedia. The rules as to what images fit into Wikipedia are much more fuzzy than most people think. We want to start addressing them and hopefully change Wikipedia and its culture for the better.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heated debates following our Haaretz interview by Mattan</title>
		<link>http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/meta/heated-debates-following-our-haaretz-interview#comment-276</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 22:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wikipediaillustrated.org/?p=365#comment-276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi guys, I&#039;ve just seen your presentation in the Pecha Kucha event. loved the illustrations, but i do have a question, if I may - don&#039;t you think that by adding illustrations to the different articles, you will then prevent the option of editing and changing that article? I mean, if there is an artwork related to the article as it is now, and someone will want to edit it and make it better, than won&#039;t the artwork will lose the thing that connected it with the article? the article won&#039;t be the same as it was when the artwork was made, so the artwork now has no meaning to that article, no?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys, I&#8217;ve just seen your presentation in the Pecha Kucha event. loved the illustrations, but i do have a question, if I may &#8211; don&#8217;t you think that by adding illustrations to the different articles, you will then prevent the option of editing and changing that article? I mean, if there is an artwork related to the article as it is now, and someone will want to edit it and make it better, than won&#8217;t the artwork will lose the thing that connected it with the article? the article won&#8217;t be the same as it was when the artwork was made, so the artwork now has no meaning to that article, no?</p>
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